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Joined: Nov 16, 2005 Posts: 437 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:21 pm
They're only doing their job. Is it only a few people who see that as a most pathetic excuse. Oh I forgot - if they look after their mates too perhaps they can get a VC like Corporal Apiata?
Just following the laws - bullshit. Police and judges not infrequently make comments on laws they enforce - usually its in the direction of wanting them toughened.
Joined: Oct 27, 2004 Posts: 237 Location: Dunsterdam
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:13 am
Remeember the cops in the UK forced cannabis decrim, now fukwit Brown want to recriminalise.
The cops aren't the only people to target, Judges and Lawyers are good too. They are far to cosy in their prohibitionist roles. Need some natural justice...
Joined: Feb 19, 2004 Posts: 1344 Location: Nelson area
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:13 am
I had a 20 minute chat with our newest "local" cop. about prohibition, regulation.
The most interesting thing that kept coming out of his mouth (5 times in fact). "I'd hate to loose the power of search that MOD gives us."
It didn't matter what I said he was against change only because of the warrant-less search powers that he has.
I explained to him that "Your reasons for maintaining prohibition are selfish reasons."
I think it is important, if you have the courage, to engage in debate with police on the beat. (have no weed on you or at home I suggest when you do this). Don't be a smart mouth, and don't be accusing. Just use facts and logic, try and see that if you make sense, the police person might walk away and think about what you have said, and might even look at changing some of their views. And some smoker down the track might get to experience that magical/mystical thing we hear about but hardly ever see DISCRETION.
I explained how they loose respect from the public by policing this "political" law.
We talked about drug driving (this conversation happened just after I gave evidence at the select committee hearing).
But I refuse to be seen as a criminal, and will always approach and dialogue with police as equals.
Steven _________________ Regulation will set cannabis free
Freedom's just a TICK away - VOTE Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party 2008 then everyone's a winner
Contact me: steven@alcp.org.nz Party website http://www.alcp.org.nz
Joined: Oct 27, 2004 Posts: 237 Location: Dunsterdam
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:13 pm
Dude if your cynical remarks are refering to the recent arrests, remember police were targeting the leader of a political group, he was arrested in a highly dubious manour, when he asked what he was being arrested for they replyed 'Obstruction'. They then inflicted injury to the man, calling in 7 patrol cars... This ended up generating National/International Media attention, and the rest is history....
And no my cynical remarks were to people who seem to think non-peaceful interactions with cops are the best way to get things done. Not to undermine the efforts of any 4:20 crew.
About 60 people who joined a protest yesterday against the recent arrests on Otago University's campus of three political activists were themselves the target of a smaller group protesting the use of illegal drugs on campus.
The second group of about 10 people who held banners reading Free Speech, Not Drugs and chanted "We don't care, get off our campus, clear the air" said they were students opposed to people smoking marijuana on the university campus.
Police and the university's security team, Campus Watch, stayed away from the 2pm protest (no they didn't, uniformed officers were there), during which people marched from the Union Lawn on campus to the university's registry building.
Protest organiser Cory Anderson said the recent arrests of three supporters of the pro-cannabis legislation reform group the National Organisation for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (Norml) at a Norml stand during a students association market day were a blatant attack on civil rights, especially the rights to free speech, freedom of expression and association.
The three men were arrested after being watched by plain clothes police officers.
The arrests were also an attempt by the police to "intimidate and quash" a political movement by arresting its leaders and those in association with them, he said.
Protesters held signs that read Defend Civil Liberties and chanted "Cops off Campus" as they marched.
Norml members have received increased publicity lately following the arrests, the subsequent trespass notices issued to the men and a police crack-down on a weekly "protest smoke-up" on the university campus.
Commerce student Lawrence Tuck, who marched with the anti-drug smoking group, said those marching with him were mostly members of a Facebook group he started recently in favour of a drug-free campus.
"We are a bunch of students who believe that drugs are illegal and should not be allowed to be used on campus. (except for alcohol, nicotine and caffeine)
"Anyone else using them would be arrested, but somehow these people have been afforded the right to break the law. It seems they have had the full support of the university too."
Supporter Rachel Schryvers said marijuana was an addictive drug and New Zealanders were constantly being reminded of the destructive side of addiction.
"So no to this is saying no to this particular culture."
There was a difference between freedom of speech and illegal activities on campus, Mr Tuck said.
Those on the other side of the protest said they wanted to make a point.
Student Paul McMullan said he joined the protest against the arrest of the activists to make a point about the "silly activity of the authorities" which he described as a "waste of time".
Law lecturer Andrew Geddes said it was pleasing to see students taking an interest in political matters.
"While I'm not fully sympathetic with the marijuana issue, people are actually going out and are willing to debate the issues.
It's a loss to the campus that these sorts of protests aren't held any more."
Mr Anderson said he was pleased with the way the protest went.
He believed more people would have turned out had the weather been better. _________________ Tick the Leaf - www.alcp.org.nz
Welcome to Dunsterdam - www.otagonorml.com
Joined: Aug 23, 2005 Posts: 2291 Location: Queensland
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:51 pm
bubblebobble wrote:
I'm pretty sure the verb is 'loosen'
And no my cynical remarks were to people who seem to think non-peaceful interactions with cops are the best way to get things done. Not to undermine the efforts of any 4:20 crew.
You are correct, it is loosen, but I couldn't rhyme my shit right with the "en".
_________________ Hardcore 4 Cannabis since 2004
--------------------------------------
Vote ALCP in 2008!
Joined: Oct 27, 2004 Posts: 237 Location: Dunsterdam
more comments from Stuff Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:28 pm
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James, I do not think Mr Anderson is associated with either OPSA or OUSA.
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#6 Posted by Naly D — 11:43 AM | Friday , 01 August 2008
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In response to #4
I completely agree with you James. Im only two years out of Uni but found our Student Representatives were an embarrasment to say the least. These Hippies/Mature Students need to get back to the real world.
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#7 Posted by over-it — 11:57 AM | Friday , 01 August 2008
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completely agree with the most of the above posts. Although I didn't see the way the way the police manhandled them, so I can't judge whether the force used was unnecessary. The real joke is that they are trying to disguise a pothead march as a "political protest", for something that is still illegal, and still a pointless recreational activity. Their only real aim is to get high from smoking cannabis, with no real "greater good" cause to back up their movement. I'm guessing they'll whip out the old 'but it has medicinal uses' argument. NEWS FLASH: If it was a prescription medicine, steps would be put in place to prevent idiots like you getting high off the stuff, and people who might actually need it, would get it.
Stop wasting the police's time and grow up.
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#8 Posted by Richard — 11:58 AM | Friday , 01 August 2008
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First they came for the pot smokers, but, because I was not a pot smoker, I didn't complain...
Pot may sound like a daft issue, and in my opinion it is: but this is about free speech and about civil disobedience. Imagine if the police had acted the same way if a bunch of truck drivers decided to close down traffic in a major city?
The police and campus security are acting in a heavy handed and patronizing manner as well as appearing as fools. Comments like, "silly buggers" are completely counter productive and are obviously from someone who is naive in handling these kinds of affairs.
Students provide the energy to complain about things that us working stiffs don't have time to. All power to them - thought I think the Dunedin rain will prove a major disincentive today.
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#9 Posted by Harlan — 12:01 PM | Friday , 01 August 2008
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I can only assume that the people who cannot see why smoking publically as a form of protest differs from "wanting to get high" went to university to do Engineering, or some other course that offers no free thought (and this is coming from a chemistry post grad). If it was just about getting wasted, they could do it in the comfort of their homes, in the warm and without fear of being arrested. Instead they choose to flout a law which criminalises a drug that is far less dangerous than alcohol and tobacco, as shown time and time again in studies presented in peer-reviewed journals.
The majority of the public is ill-informed about this topic, through no fault of their own, because the media love to demonise anything that portrays youth and the left as criminals and tree-huggers, when the reality couldnt be further from the truth.
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#10 Posted by Aidan — 12:20 PM | Friday , 01 August 2008
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In response to #4
"why should I have to pay to support their agendas which I or the larger student populace don't agree with?"
Well, given Students Association executives are elected by voting, the majority of students must agree with their agendas or at least be indifferent to them. Would you also say "why should I pay tax when the party I didn't vote for formed the government?"
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#11 Posted by Byron — 12:34 PM | Friday , 01 August 2008
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Clara , silly isnt the right word , stupid is alot closer to the mark.
Those of us old enough to remember when pot was class c in definition and strength (no sir I didnt inhale) , can well remember (unlike the party pill , p high youth of today) people we new who succumbed (and went morbidly stupid) to the weaker weed or developed full blown schizophrenia.
This country is so carefree with its drug laws and wide spread use its no wonder the slightly more eveil versions are ravaging our society from the inside out.
The students broke the law , you can protest all you want on campus about anything (still , I hope ,at least till Chairman Helen finds out the latest bribe wont help her facist regime last another round), if the morons put the weed away and actually did a constructive protest , rather than a smoke up......... well actually no ,screw them they are breaking the law ....... I wish them well on their OE with a drug conviction in tow , losers.
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#12 Posted by Dazed and Confused — 12:36 PM | Friday , 01 August 2008
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So true, James. I went to Vic Uni a few years ago and all the student leaders were so blatantly left that it wasn't funny. The student newspaper was full of one view and one view only and generally consisted of people trying ridiculously hard to undermine anyone that might make a bit of money or have even a slight right-leaning view.
If you challenged these views you would then be branded as extreme right or ignorant... The power trip these "leaders" are on and lack of any open mindedness is interesting to say the least.
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#13 Posted by craig — 12:46 PM | Friday , 01 August 2008
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In response to #3
It was also illegal at one stage to be a black person seated on a bus in the states, it was also illegal for aboriginals to vote until 1970, change only occurs if you fight for change. I personally do not indulge in cannibis as much as i would like and i certainly do not protest. however, i believe in the civil liberty to fight for what you believe in. Alcohol is legal yet how much damage is attributed to people's lives, property because of it. Factoring in cannibis to the argument how many death a year? How much damage?
Our social norms blind us from the true reality. Which is alcohol and tobacco are taxed - cannibis is not taxed. answer - outlaw it.
I fully support abe and his position for change. A more worthless activity is sitting on your arse and moaning about things which you do not understand and soaking up what our 'free media' gives us.
I would love to have seen you ask ms. parks to stand up to free a seat.
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#14 Posted by Alex McInnes — 13:56 PM | Friday , 01 August 2008
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In response to #11
On average, only 10% of the student populace end up voting - because absolutely everyone standing for Student Council have the same agendas every year.
Protesting for your rights is one thing, but partaking in illegal activity is quite another.
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#15 Posted by over-it — 14:21 PM | Friday , 01 August 2008
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just so all you people who sit on there computer and see the world through the box can know, the protest went well, around 80 people showed up to protes civil liberty and freedom of speech for all, there were around 15 anti 420 protesters who got of there computer chairs and got out in the weather to have there say, this protest has been seen as not just from the NORML group, many people were there to have their say, so finally freedom of speech is alive and kicking down south.
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#16 Posted by -newsbud- — 16:15 PM | Friday , 01 August 2008
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Legalize Cannabis.
Stop the protests! then get on with real issues, Children dying of starvation, is one that I would think deserves our attention.
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#17 Posted by Winston Matthews — 22:31 PM | Friday , 01 August 2008
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Hi, Everyone,
What about the Womans Movement, the three waves of it in fact. Woman would still be in the Kitchen complaning to each other over the back fence at washing time, if certain people had not decided to stand up. There was so much research done, to state that woman were not as smart as men, and had smaller brains and so on eg: if they were educated their ovaries would shrivel up and they would be unable to concieve. STUPID. Are we going to look back on this in 20 years time and be like why was everyone so naive, What is the point in them hiding in their house smoking it. Feminists and Gays changed the Law by being out. Has everyone forgotten this. What is having it illegal going to do, it is not working so far. IS IT. oh thats right just because you can't see it you don't think its going on. Also saying that we spend our student allowances on dope, i don't even smoke. And im pretty sure most don't even drink. What about all these students who go around drunk, spreading STD'S cause they don't remember or aren't in control of themselves and then we have to all pay for abortions out of tax payers money 18,000 abortions a year think on that one. You should also not sterotype calling them Hippies........ At least they think and don't just worship the law (bible)... go move to Zimbabwe.
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#18 Posted by Shannon — 11:50 AM | Saturday , 02 August 2008
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Surely the police have better things to do, than go undercover pretending to be students, just so they can harass some pot smokers? Are all the burglaries solved? Are there no alcohol-fueled assaults in Dunedin? No matter what you think about cannabis, no one deserves to be arrested for it. These cops and the Campus Watch bullies have their priorities all wrong.
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#19 Posted by Chris — 11:57 AM | Sunday , 03 August 2008
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Everything *good* has been illegal at one time or another (liquor, sex, criticizing the government, working on a weekend, beleiving that the Earth is round, etc.). The point these fellows are making is that the personal & societal damage inflicted by government's overreaction what should be a "personal choice" issue (such as wee have granted to tobacco, caffeine and alcohol) is much worse than the damage inflicted by the drug itself.
Beyond that, the damages to society from the "legal" drug alcohol far outweigh the damages by cannabis. So to see the issue only in terms of "legal" and "illegal" obscures the point they are making.
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#20 Posted by Phillip deFrontrose — 13:14 PM | Sunday , 03 August 2008
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The truth is the police are used often to stop people with political ideas. For example I emailed the members of parliment telling them I do not think they should support a bill going through parliment as it only aided criminals in victimising the law abiding while doing nothing to address the issue of criminal breaking the law in the first place. 6 months and 3 investigations later just before the terror raids I was visited by the police who tried to force their view on me and questioned why body armour, which is not only used to stop bullets but protect rally car drivers and bull riders and countless other uses like I dunno stopping someone from getting shot after being threatened and having cops say they cant do nuffin. should remain legal.
hello body armor saves lives here, although according to them wearing body armor in public is the same as carrying a pocket knife.
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#21 Posted by gary — 20:07 PM | Sunday , 03 August 2008
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#4 and #6 are both wrong - Cory Anderson is a member of the OUSA executive, but he organised the protest independently of that position. OUSA decided it could not officially be involved due to the fact that some candidates for the 2009 exec were involved in organising it, but of course individual members of the exec are welcome to be involved in protests as concerned students.
And #15, you nong, if you don't like the candidates up for election, then VOTE NO CONFIDENCE. If only ten percent of students support any of the candidates, then clearly the other 90 percent getting in there and voting no confidence would be far more representative.
#16, there were nowhere near 80 people involved in the original protest - more like 40.
And finally, yes, protesters who engage in civil disobedience campaigns can expect to be arrested - and then publicise that fact to bring attention to their cause. Of course they're going to make a noise! Although the noise at the protest was more a diffuse cacaphony - ranging from the cannabis arrests to ownership of intellectual property to increased police powers at World Youth Day in Sydney, of all things. It had no clear message or desired outcome.
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#22 Posted by Amy — 16:04 PM | Monday , 04 August 2008 _________________ Tick the Leaf - www.alcp.org.nz
Welcome to Dunsterdam - www.otagonorml.com
Prior to the Homosexual reform bill a number of our current Members of parliament did some rather fringe protesting , wearing only a mask to hide behind .
Many of them were known prior to becoming members of
getting in behind
the fight for homosexual reform while it was an illegal activity ..
Other MP's have fought for prostitution reform and while doing it were involved in the same illegal activity .
Just because an activity is illegal it does not follow that there is justification to stop it..
Hells teeth what was once an illegal activity could easy become a compulsory part of the school curriculum if our Minister of Education gets his way.
And if rumor has it , partaking of prostutitues , once an illegal activity is now the norm for many of those now condemning cannabis protests.A bit of tit for tat coming soon might just example how prevalent .
I often find the hypocrisy of those condemning pro-CLR protests truly nauseating. Considering many of the same people will take to the streets to protest for the right to smack their kids but for some reason the cannabis laws are set in stone forever and ever. It is just bizarre how people will so aggressively defend the status quo as defined by the law however if that law ever changes public perceptions are turned on their head as mentioned above.
Joined: Oct 27, 2004 Posts: 237 Location: Dunsterdam
Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:03 pm
The sentiment i find most classic is that CLR is not a political issue but a legal one. Hell is it not the politicians who set the law?
Amazing the resoning people use to justify their misunderstandings. We are stupid for breaking the law and 420 is only pretending to be a protest to provide an excuse to get high.
a) Civil Disobedience nessesarily involves law breaking.
b) Civil disobedience is one of the strongest and most effective means of protest. (Despite having organised two protest marches this year, people argue that 420 should become more of a protest rather than a bunch of people standing round smoking. Really the act of smoking illicit substances publicly is the protest in of itself.)
c) We could go elsewhere and be descrete if we just wanted to get high. It is precisely this sort of secrecy that we detest having to engage in though.
Obviously we dont blow smoke in cops faces (although there was this on time just before going into court when the arresting sergent walked throught a thick cloud... but i digress) but neither are we intimidated any more. the sergent in charge of the tactical squad leading the assult against 420 is regularly making an appearence now but has been unable to find even one single way of ending the ongoing twice weekly protest.
This may seem like a small victory but really the Misuse of Drugs act has already been undermined and we can force an end to the cannabis laws very shortly.
NB. The 3 tresspass orders have now been dropped just weeks after their issue and Norml has resumed a good-faith agreement with the university, letting us all breath our ganja just a little bit easier. _________________ Tick the Leaf - www.alcp.org.nz
Welcome to Dunsterdam - www.otagonorml.com
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