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Joined: Feb 19, 2004 Posts: 1344 Location: Nelson area
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:19 pm
Since before the last election I was saying The media is NOT our friend
It won't be until there is a cannabis party representative elected into parliament will the media give us a fair go on the air ways. Good example is which paper prints ALCP's press releases - NONE
The issue is not of conforming or not, but articulation of the message. Have a sound bite ready, always have an answer. Don't swear, make sense. We are intelligent people, and intelligence says regulation will work.
Focus on getting people to vote, don't rely on the media to do the job for you. It's candidates getting out there and impressing individuals enough to vote for change on election day.
If the media can show you in a "dopy" or unruly light they will run with that footage. Their job is to show us as unruly youth who haven't yet realised the seriousness of life - like getting a job and being boring and responsible. Like I've said, they wont listen until we can show them an "honourable Minister" to stick a microphone in front off (look they had to put Russel Norman in parliament for the media to even acknowledge his existence.
Use U-Tube and flood it with pro ALCP short clips go crazy (no conforming there ) inspire voters Coz it won't be just the smokers that will tip the balance, but the Mom's and Dad's, Old people, people who are just SICKof the other parties, and last but not the leased, disillusioned Green party supporters (and they are out there).
Steven _________________ Regulation will set cannabis free
Freedom's just a TICK away - VOTE Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party 2008 then everyone's a winner
Contact me: steven@alcp.org.nz Party website http://www.alcp.org.nz
To get where it wants to go, imo, alcp HAS to embrace the mainstream as well as reaching current smokers/lifestylers who are not aware of the party. Given the general apathy of the voters towards the major parties, now would be a pretty good chance to grab some of the disenchanted protest votes and try to leverage some statistics.
Marijuana users NEED to be seen as everyday people who prefer a cone instead of a beer.
Less militant (not quite the right terminology) action more moderation, I guess the problem is you feel like you aren't being heard unless you shout, but considering how much damage it can do to the image of marijuana when the public perceives users as "upstart louts" (not my view, but perception is everything).
tbh, I think pushing for legality is the wrong move as it is unreachable, set sights on a reachable target - decriminalisation and more wide spread use for medpot.
Joined: Dec 01, 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:37 pm
Quote:
The issue is not of conforming or not, but articulation of the message. Have a sound bite ready, always have an answer. Don't swear, make sense. We are intelligent people, and intelligence says regulation will work.
Exactly Though I think the issue of conforming is a moot. Throughout life there is the pressure to conform, its especially strong in youth, but us older ones still feel it. Maybe it the older you get the more you realise the family and social network you build up over the years is the most important, and maybe the fear of stigma for them (if not for yourself) comes from that. Even though we dissent about this issue we conform to a huge number of other things.
I heard this today : F false E events A appear R real and didn't know what to make of it but wrote it down. Anyone ever heard this before?*
But lets face it, the last time there were significant protests were 1981 springbok tour and Bastion Point. NZ gave itself a fright.
* it was Oprah's O magazine psychologist person. ha !
Joined: Feb 19, 2004 Posts: 1344 Location: Nelson area
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:46 pm
Hey menial, I like to troll around skate parks looking for 18 and overs to talk about elections. Because I look like their Dads they always start off wary, but as soon as they see I support cannabis smoking they chill out and we end up having a great talk about police, voting and cannabis.
I agree with you on most of your points except regarding decriminalisation. People (non-smokers) get confused if its bad enough to be a crime why would you lessen the penalty????? Also under decriminalisation the plant is still prohibited, so can not be used for its other attributes.
Where REGULATION acknowledges its level of harm and focuses on them, protecting those that need protecting while not criminalising consenting adults. NEVER accept decriminalisation as an option! If you do you've gained nothing.
Steven _________________ Regulation will set cannabis free
Freedom's just a TICK away - VOTE Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party 2008 then everyone's a winner
Contact me: steven@alcp.org.nz Party website http://www.alcp.org.nz
Joined: Dec 01, 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:01 pm
Talking of long hair . . . have a listen to these lyrics, and enjoy Keith Moon, its 4.19mins . . . someone very witty on Russell Brown's blog said : "on Moon: here's a Who track which should have been better known... and which also shows where Jim Henson and is co-Muppetteers got the model for their drummer."
It took me 30+ mins to download so I've played it about 20 times already Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmJFdZGalE4
Also, another old long haired activist was in the news today : Sober Shadbolt denied entry to bar
24 Jul 2008 7:45a.m.
Being Mayor of Invercargill didn't help Tim Shadbolt when he tried to get a drink at a bar in the city after attending a fancy dress party.
His party of six got bounced by a Kiln doorman because costumes are not allowed at the bar owned by the Invercargill Licensing Trust, the Southland Times reported.
Shadbolt, his partner Asha Dutt, his son and partner and Councillor Darren Ludlow and his wife had just come from a nearby private fancy dress party.
Shadbolt was wearing a platoon commander's uniform and was sober when he was told no costumes were allowed because they encouraged binge drinking.
Shadbolt said it was the first time he had been denied entry to an Invercargill bar but did not expect preferential treatment.
NZPA
That idea of tony's about old pix of activists would be entertaining and perhaps useable, but how to go about finding them all . . .
Where REGULATION acknowledges its level of harm and focuses on them, protecting those that need protecting while not criminalising consenting adults. NEVER accept decriminalisation as an option! If you do you've gained nothing.
Steven
I hear what you are saying, but to me, decriminalisation is a logical step on the way to legislation. The jump from illegal to legal is just too far to be made in a short space of time, perhaps even my generation. An attitudinal shift has to occur within the NZ psyche before it can become anything resembling legal. There are just too many grey conservatives that despise weed yet have never smoked it. Patiently knock on the door until the time is right.
One thing holding it back is the inability in many (professional) circles to "out" yourself. Once this barrier is broken down we can have more mainstream activism and show the country that the face of pot smoking actually looks mainstream and not the "fringe", when people see pot users as "different" they will attribute that also to pot user, that they too are "different".
God, wouldn't life be different if we were piss heads :/
Joined: Dec 01, 2003 Posts: 2992 Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:03 am
Quote:
God, wouldn't life be different if we were piss heads :/
Yeah mon.
I hear what you're saying, but there is definately a place for some direct action. I'd be inclined to move more discretely when the plods make it too unpleasant for less committed supporters. I'd like to think we'd look after our supporters as well as the issue.
We've had the decrim/regulate/legalise/partial prohibition arguments here before. Thrashed, quite a lot. I can't direct you to specific threads, they're all over the place.
Either way decrim means lack of criminal sanctions which, unless you support traffic-like fines as Nandor demonstrated there was a case for, is legalisation under another name. They all mean roughly the same thing. I feel a moratorium on arrests is my bottom line. I can't support a fine as Aussie has already shown that those at the pointy end of prohibition - those most likely to be arrested, the poor and marginalised - still get hammered. Its still 'grow your underclass.'
I have nothing but admiration for the fight that Abe, Julian and co are putting up against the considerable might of Otago University and the Dunedin police force regardless of their appearance (btw Otago Uni is by far the largest employer - biggest business? - in Dunedin & probably Otago too).
It seems to me that if their fellow cannabis users cannot see beyond the stereotypes (especially when they should know better) then there isn't much hope that the general public will ever see beyond the stereotypical views of cannabis users.
Anyway, it reminds me of a message that I often give my son.
Whenever he moans about not having the right "thing" necessary to conform, I tell him to just be himself and wait for others to accept him for who he is rather than take the other approach and try to conform to what others are doing in the hope of getting their acceptance.
The weakness of the latter approach is that the power remains with the others as to whether or not they accept the would-be conformist.
The strength of the former approach is that sooner or later the others are almost forced to accept the non-conformist.
I've seen cannabis users tidy themselves up and don suit & tie only for the powers-that-be to see straight through their disguise.
Besides, if people are not happy with the image of the current batch of cannabis protesters then they need to challenge the stereotypes themselves by getting more involved.
IMO cannabis law reform will make faster progress if more cannabis users speak out for themselves.
It's certainly not realistic to expect one person (a Messiah?) or group to be able to represent all cannabis users and their views.
Finally, from an electoral point of view, it doesn't matter if 95% of the voting population are against cannabis law reform as the ALCP only needs 5% support to get elected (although that's a massive task in itself rather than an "only").
steveoh wrote:
Since before the last election I was saying The media is NOT our friend
It won't be until there is a cannabis party representative elected into parliament will the media give us a fair go on the air ways. Good example is which paper prints ALCP's press releases - NONE
I think that it could also be said that the media is not necessarily our enemy either.
Personally, I've had more success with my LTE writing since treating the editors etc with some respect as compared to when I saw them as just another part of the enemy.
I couldn't help but notice that one of the photos used in the "Narks on campus" coverage was of protesters with a banner quoting Inspector Campbell saying "We have more important things to do" than deal with the 4:20s. It was certainly a poignant image in context of the photo montage. Was its presence just a coincidence?
Abe and Julian have both done an excellent job in getting widespread publicity for the cause of cannabis law reform in the mainstream media.
Julian even managed to get an ALCP press release on the front page of the Otago Daily Times (so maybe your example wasn't so good steveoh).
Anyway, all credit to Abe and Julian, they've certainly elevated the issue of cannabis law reform in Dunedin and around NZ too .
It will be interesting to see if it transfers into votes for the ALCP.
Joined: Feb 19, 2004 Posts: 1344 Location: Nelson area
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:56 am
I stand by my statement "THE MEDIA IS NOT OUR FRIEND" which doesn't automatically make them our enemy.
But you can not use "letters to the editor" as an example of support. The Nelson Mail has from memory only once run an article that was pro-cannabis in the six years I've been looking. To me it seems that maybe the editor of the paper is pro, while the paper itself is anti or mute regarding cannabis.
Julian's press release got in because of Benson-Pope had said he was open to any offers from parties, that's all. The paper used the release to poke at Benson-Pope.
My comment "THE MEDIA IS NOT OUR FRIEND" is to point out that we shouldn't waste time and precious resources chasing the media hoping that they will do our job for us. GRASS-roots is the way we are going to bring on change, not wooing the media, let them catch up with us, and DON"T let them report us as "dopers"
Steven _________________ Regulation will set cannabis free
Freedom's just a TICK away - VOTE Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party 2008 then everyone's a winner
Contact me: steven@alcp.org.nz Party website http://www.alcp.org.nz
Joined: Nov 16, 2005 Posts: 437 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:03 am
menial wrote:
...
tbh, I think pushing for legality is the wrong move as it is unreachable, set sights on a reachable target - decriminalisation and more wide spread use for medpot.
Flame away. I'm the new guy
Cannabis has been decriminalised in some places for over 30 years. Name one where it has progressed to a non-fine situation. As Steveoh said decriminalisation is a step sideways rather than one forward.
At the Cannabis Awareness Week Debate in Dunedin, Pauline Gardener (formerly a Nat party mp and prohibitionist) suggested a 2 year moratorium on adult cannabis arrests. If the cannabis law reform movement wants to make some progress, it should be making as much of that idea as it can.
a plan, any ideas Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:11 pm
so we have lots of ideas of how to make the movment work, otagonorml has shown that perstiance pays, its been 4 years now and finally everyone down here is talking about it, most older people act on what they have been brought up with, grass roots activity now has a platform to elevate its self to natianl organised effort, small moves like postering pro cannabis meetings, a natinol stoner day where like the truckies we can all protest at once, in some sort of way that every closet stoner can get out and say hey i am who i am,
lets all get together and come up with some ideas, get it out there, what we are looking for now is critial mass.
and old saying,
dont hate the media become the media.
its worked for me my footage abes arrest is all over the internet, i hang out with the crews from both one and three and get to say our side of the story. if you belive you have a method of geting your say out there put it into action, evan if your not sure what your doing some action is better than none.
It appears the university or who ever is behind this crack down is still up to there dirty tricks. Solely by chance I happened to see a note on the notice area outside the St David Street Theatre titled "Norml's Lie's" claiming that Abe Gray had made a agreement with the proctor to move the 420 protest to the museum but later changed his mind and continued to hold the protest on campus. I smell bullshit and a deliberate attempt to spread misinformation.
It appears the university or who ever is behind this crack down is still up to there dirty tricks. Solely by chance I happened to see a note on the notice area outside the St David Street Theatre titled "Norml's Lie's" claiming that Abe Gray had made a agreement with the proctor to move the 420 protest to the museum but later changed his mind and continued to hold the protest on campus. I smell bullshit and a deliberate attempt to spread misinformation.
please find a copy of this and make it find its way to ch9 or the odt, this is very weird.
The kind of people that are willing to judge someone by their hair length is the sort of person who would rather die than vote ALCP. We need 5% of the vote, cannabis users make up around 25% of the population (according to some estimates) - therefore, we need to try to get cannabis users voting just as much as we need to soften the resistance of the typical Kiwi middle-class bigot. One way to get cannabis users voting is for them to see faces that represent THEM, which is after all what MMP is all about.
Some cannabis users identify with guys who look like Jules and Abe. Others might not. We should try and attract votes from all of them, because 5% is a big ask for a protest party and we're going to need them all. _________________ This is our year - TICK THE LEAF: www.alcp.org.nz
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Since before the last election I was saying 
) inspire voters 
Though I think the issue of conforming is a moot. Throughout life there is the pressure to conform, its especially strong in youth, but us older ones still feel it. Maybe it the older you get the more you realise the family and social network you build up over the years is the most important, and maybe the fear of stigma for them (if not for yourself) comes from that. Even though we dissent about this issue we conform to a huge number of other things.
How about a bit of "credit where credit is due."
