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Joined: May 11, 2006 Posts: 332 Location: Auckland
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:30 pm
bubblebobble wrote:
No malice intended; it's a fair question. Despite best efforts some people are just not going to take you (or anyone in your position) seriously.
It'll do no good to get wound up over it.
On one hand, you are completely correct - no matter what is said, or done, even if cannabis was legal, there would be haters. It is no different than tobacco, liquor, gambling, prostitution, politics, or religion.. often all you can do is disagree.
On the other hand, if you do not allow yourself the time to get upset, the chance to build up that energy, then for some people, there would be no drive, for some, it is the fight, the fight is the need..
It's all to political, just pass the law, and then pass a fatty! =)
My good man, I see your point about the fight. That does make a lot of sense.
But I still stand by my point to a degree. Hating on someone too much because they won't agree with you is only gonna make -you- seem too self righteous when really it's the other way around. You wanna be the good guys here, as best I can gather.
Apologies for any offense caused. I merely call it like I see it.
Joined: Dec 01, 2003 Posts: 2996 Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:35 am
I was getting grumpy because I don't like to waste time and energy. I am serious about what I spend my spare time doing, because I have so little of it.
Quote:
On one hand, you are completely correct - no matter what is said, or done, even if cannabis was legal, there would be haters.
I agree but think they are a minority. Some of them are merely wilfully obtuse wallies
But many of the rest think there's something wrong with the law but don't know enough to suggest any alternative, or haven't even started formulating an opinion. Others would like it to be decriminalised yesterday. Then you get the others who just smile and are tolerant and reasonable, and when pushed will give you an honest opinion. I've struck quite a few older ladies who are surprisingly cynical about the system we have (don't know why I was surprised though)
If you get them on their own in the street away from their families its surprising what you hear. But first try to get their opinion. If you can't find some part of what they said to agree with then you'll just have to 'agree to disagree' Being respectful of others opinions leaves a better aftertaste than a frown. Maybe they walk away thinking 'nice girl, no brains' but I know they walk away thinking also about what I've said, that prohibition and bluster/bullshit isn't working because school kids can get it.
Joined: May 11, 2006 Posts: 332 Location: Auckland
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:43 am
bubblebobble wrote:
My good man, I see your point about the fight. That does make a lot of sense.
But I still stand by my point to a degree. Hating on someone too much because they won't agree with you is only gonna make -you- seem too self righteous when really it's the other way around. You wanna be the good guys here, as best I can gather.
Apologies for any offense caused. I merely call it like I see it.
I hardly ever pop into the political opinions, but liked your comment about agreeing to disagree, its so true for most things and we as a people, forget it often. =)
As a 98% sideliner on this subject, I would have to say from my viewpoint, most people do want to be the good guys here, and are trying very hard to drive things in the proper direction.
Joined: May 11, 2006 Posts: 332 Location: Auckland
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:46 am
paula wrote:
I was getting grumpy because I don't like to waste time and energy. I am serious about what I spend my spare time doing, because I have so little of it.
Paula...
...and everyone else who stands up for what is right.
Joined: Feb 19, 2004 Posts: 1344 Location: Nelson area
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:11 am
I think its important to allow the person you are talking to, to have their say. This allows you to debunk any illusions that they have.
What I try to achieve when I come across a die-hard prohibition (always remember they are scared because they don't have the facts), is to get them to agree with at least one point before terminating the conversation (waste of energy going on & ON & ON & ON if they are not willing to take in new information). That point is "PROHIBITION HAS FAILED." That is an easy one for them to agree upon. "Look around 12 year olds can obtain cannabis. Even if regulation isn't perfect it's a lot better that what we have now". says I.
If they say well build more prisons - the answer is, "Well that's what America is doing and they are not decreasing the amount of cannabis being consumed."
Hey Julian trust me all National candidates always come across a bit slimy, it's the mould they come from
What pamphlet are you using? Try mine
Also if you are doing the "meet in the street" Try introducing yourself like this "Good morning my name is Julian, I am a candidate in this electorate, and I would like you to take this home (pamphlet) to read at your leisure. It just explains what we are about. We are not advocating for everyone to be smoking cannabis. But FIXING a failed law to help protect our young people without criminalising consenting adults."
I also have noticed that the "older" people have a bee in their bonnet about "P" (in the 70's it was evil heroin) So it doesn't hurt to throw in that under RegulationCRIMINAL GANGS will have trouble funding the production of "P"
One guy (in his late 60's) is voting for me, because as he said "Anything that will get that "P" off the streets has to be a good move."
Never let a prohibitionist to get you down. But be fuelled by the support from the unexpected source. like cops
Steven _________________ Regulation will set cannabis free
Freedom's just a TICK away - VOTE Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party 2008 then everyone's a winner
Contact me: steven@alcp.org.nz Party website http://www.alcp.org.nz
Joined: Oct 27, 2004 Posts: 237 Location: Dunsterdam
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:24 am
bubblebobble wrote:
Or maybe they do think for themselves just like we do, but their conclusions don't go the same way.
You won't be able to convert everyone you meet, so just do your best and leave it at agreeing to disagree where appropriate. That'd be my advice, anyway. You sound a bit frustrated that people like the National candidate wouldn't take you seriously? No offense but are you honestly surprised?
I wasn't in the least bit surprised that National's Candidate was a prohibitionist, I just noted that he fits the 'Hollow Men' mold. That is competent at being lying power hungry scum.
My comments were that cannabis is an issue that catalyses people into holding strong misconceptions.
Remember only fools lean on their misunderstandings
Generally the campus has a high degree of negative-liberty and people are used to being bombarded by flyers, so you often only have a second to hand someone pamphlet as they hurry past.
One of the most striking effects of marijuana is its ability to cause irrational behaviour in non-users.
"Fuck the LAW! Fight the WAR"
"All Hell can't Stop us NOW"
It did not do them much good voting Greens or labour , all they got in return was a sell out.
Before Keys put the lid on individual MP's having an opinion on cannabis , I found more Nats prepared to discuss cannabis , medpot in particular and with a degree of knowledge . Brash had a healthy outlook on it , unfortunately Keys has either a closed mind or has been encouraged to have a closed mind..
I would also expect there would be as many pro cannabis voters within the nat ranks as labour .
The biggest problem is not what major party gets in, its what minor party and coalition agreements that matter. Cannabis is a prime fetish of a couple of likely partners, who could still well hold balance of power. We saw how tradeable CLR was, its an easy one to sell out on, we have had 9 yrs of prime examples. Both labour and the Greens sold us off.
I would expect a more positive outcome if the Nats get a majority free from Dunne and Anderton, just as I would expect the same if labour can go it alone..
At least one stumbling block is out of the way, thats Peters and His crew , he's toast and there is more to come yet.
What would help is if ALCP gets a significant outcome, it would be a message for whoever gets in, they could not ignore ..
Who would have expected a green / labour combination be be so ineffectual they allowed two minor parties to dictate CLR.
Joined: Oct 27, 2004 Posts: 237 Location: Dunsterdam
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:02 am
menial wrote:
Not sure how any smoker could vote National tbh.
This is what Hollow Man Mathew Hooten was trying to promote in matters of substance. Key wants to lock us up and throw away the key _________________ Tick the Leaf - www.alcp.org.nz
Welcome to Dunsterdam - www.otagonorml.com
Joined: Nov 16, 2005 Posts: 437 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:39 am
Dorga wrote:
bubblebobble wrote:
No malice intended; it's a fair question. Despite best efforts some people are just not going to take you (or anyone in your position) seriously.
It'll do no good to get wound up over it.
On one hand, you are completely correct - no matter what is said, or done, even if cannabis was legal, there would be haters. It is no different than tobacco, liquor, gambling, prostitution, politics, or religion.. often all you can do is disagree.
On the other hand, if you do not allow yourself the time to get upset, the chance to build up that energy, then for some people, there would be no drive, for some, it is the fight, the fight is the need..
It's all to political, just pass the law, and then pass a fatty! =)
What do you mean by "It's all to political, just pass the law, and then pass a fatty! =)"? Are you trying to be ironic or is that just an incredibly feeble statement? Who passes laws? - politicians. What process are they involved in? - politics. Who else does that involve? - people who are interested in the particular issue concerned. If you are trying to be dismissive of the political process or feel that it is beneath you (most likely just excuses for doing nothing) then I hope you understand what else you wrote means - smoke a fatty after the law is passed - you'll be waiting a long time if do nothing attitudes (particularly amongst smokers) prevail! Can always spend time fantasising about cannabis cafes, while you waitl!
Last edited by Paul13 on Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total
Joined: Feb 19, 2004 Posts: 1344 Location: Nelson area
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:23 pm
Hey Paul13, I think Dorga means, that we know that cannabis is illegal not because its harmful, but for other reasons protecting firstly the budding synthetic industry, and more recently the pharmaceutical industry. These industries lobbied governments to protect their industry, thus making it "Political"
Steven _________________ Regulation will set cannabis free
Freedom's just a TICK away - VOTE Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party 2008 then everyone's a winner
Contact me: steven@alcp.org.nz Party website http://www.alcp.org.nz
Joined: Aug 23, 2005 Posts: 2291 Location: Queensland
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:16 am
I hate politics.....its one part I dont miss about home, nothing affects you like politics at home...
Since I've abandoned ship its been a relief to not have to think about it, but just smoke it and think to myself, yeah its easy to get, Yeah iM just up the road from nimbin, yeah Ive got an oz of hydro.
Yeah, no John Key or bloody Helen Clark
Yeah, No friggin police bashing on your front door looking for the "grow room".
Yeah, Im living in the harshest state in Australia where the cops think they are "winning the war" when in actual fact the entire drug scene is getting bigger by the year and theres nothing they can do to stop it.
Ever.
It makes me laugh to read of police who think they have just knocked out a huge chunk of drug supply to a place as big as Australia, and papers who think they can brainwash the entire population if they keep smashing the "our drug shame" message into peoples heads.
When in fact half the country couldnt give a toss either way.
"just hand us another VB, cheers mate, no worrys eh".
"We cant see the piss cause all the weed we cant see is BLINDING us!"
So I know we need politics in this political world, but dude, please, pass me the bong!
BTW nothing i said here was directed towards anyone on these forums.........unless your john key or helen bloody clark.
I feel better now. _________________ Hardcore 4 Cannabis since 2004
--------------------------------------
Vote ALCP in 2008!
Joined: Feb 19, 2004 Posts: 1344 Location: Nelson area
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:34 am
The race is hotting up I have had three meetings (meet the candidates) so far, Takaka, Motueka, and Mapua.
I had a friend film my speech in Takaka, any day now it will appear on You-Tube" titled: "Talking to straight people" I'll post the link when its up.
If anyone from the Coast wants to come to a meet the candidates meeting the dates are as follows:
15/10 - Karamea 7:30pm RSA
16/10 - Westport 7:30pm St James theatre
18/10 - Tasman store (not yet confirmed)
19/10 - Blackball Hilton 7:30 (Being the birthplace of Labour I'd expect more media than usual)
20/10 - Reefton 7:30
21/10 - Greymouth St Johns Hall 1:30pm
23/10 - Greymouth (again) Greymouth Lions.
04/11 - Murcherson
My bank account is in the red and I have maxed the credit card out. and are running on fumes, lets hope my car doesn't run out of steam in the middle of erehwon. Any rich millionaires who regularly check out the NORML forums I would be muchly indebted (Could be a "roving ambassador to Monaco position available - If I get in that is).
Im a serious contender as the representative in the seat of West Coast/Tasman. There is only three real contenders, with the National candidate regarded as a joke, that makes two of us, and I want the job.
Steven _________________ Regulation will set cannabis free
Freedom's just a TICK away - VOTE Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party 2008 then everyone's a winner
Contact me: steven@alcp.org.nz Party website http://www.alcp.org.nz
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Being respectful of others opinions leaves a better aftertaste than a frown. Maybe they walk away thinking 'nice girl, no brains' but I know they walk away thinking also about what I've said, that prohibition and bluster/bullshit isn't working because school kids can get it.
